Build the firm you want by hiring only the best.
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The Disruptors
With Liz Farr
When David Cristello launched Jetpack Workflow in 2016, the market already had plenty of solutions. “Are we too late?” he wondered. But he launched anyway, “and the only reason we launched is because we interviewed so many firms.” These firms told him about the problems with other solutions, and with his founders’ group, he was able to co-create a product that worked.
MORE DISRUPTORS: Candy Bellau: The $350 Pricing Mistake that Nearly Broke this Boutique Firm | The Disruptors | Poe: What P.E. Really Wants from Firms | The Disruptors | Blake Oliver: Build a Biz that Runs Without You | Daiber: Use Succession as a Growth Strategy | Cannon: Busy Season is Self-Inflicted | Carroll: When One Person Can Break the Firm | Rampe: Build a Roadmap Even When the Road’s Not There | Chang: Killing SALY, One Agent at a Time |
Back then, firms were tracking work on spreadsheets, as many firms today still do, and things were falling through the cracks. However, today’s users have more sophisticated demands. “What used to be just checklists and task lists is now about, what’s the operating system for the firm?” says Cristello.
Firms now use workflow data to drive pricing decisions, staffing decisions, turnaround, time monitoring, and client experience. Today, as Cristello explains, firms will “run time for 90 days, get the baseline, and then roll that into a fixed fee,” using ongoing tracking to decide whether to increase the client package at renewal. “They want to know, based off of the work that was tracked, do we need to increase the client package? Do we need to increase their overall dollar amount?” he says.
In addition to leading Jetpack Workflow, Cristello has also hosted the Growing Your Firm podcast for over a decade. Most of his guests are typically experimenters who enjoy the challenge of building a better firm and who have experienced “some sort of outlier success story.”
However, growth tends to break things. “You figure out how to get more clients. Well, guess what? Your client onboarding is going to break. Your staffing is going to break,” Cristello explains. “If you didn’t get your pricing down, and your pricing is going to start to break, your margins are going to start to break.”
Many of his guests hit predictable structural breaking points that occur around ten employees and around five million dollars in billings. “I have not seen a single guest that you know was able to bypass them,” Cristello says. The key, he says, is knowing that there will be challenges ahead. “If we succeed today, we’re going to have really good challenges tomorrow, and that’s okay, and that’s to be expected,” he explains.
Build the firm you want
Another consistent theme is the importance of knowing what you want as a firm owner. In a recent interview with Nancy McClelland, a frequent guest on The Disruptors, she described feeling shamed at a conference for not wanting to grow, then spent a year over-investing in marketing, sales, and staffing, only to look up and realize, “I’ve built a monster. I don’t like any part of this business. I’ve taken on clients I shouldn’t have taken on.” So she returned to her roots of solving the next problem in front of her and working with clients she loved.
A critical inflection point for firm owners is whether and when to hire, which Cristello frames as a fork in the road question. “Do you love sitting down, head down, doing the work for hours on end? Or do you see that as a stepping stone to the next part of the business?” Cristello says that the signal to hire is an easy one. “If you’re dreading actually doing the work, this is probably a good sign, ‘Hey, you can hire people to take this on.’”
Set clear expectations and hire only the best
For attracting and retaining great people, Cristello has two buckets. Bucket A includes clear expectations and definitions of success, autonomy for team members and a sense of ownership. It also includes professional development in the form of ride-alongs to client meetings, where team members see how leaders interact with clients.
These ride-alongs often have a deep impact on new accountants. “A lot of people will look at that specific exercise, and they’ll be like, that’s when I fell in love with accounting,” Cristello explains. By witnessing firsthand how relationships are built, they realize they are in the right profession.
Bucket B, Cristello explains, is a bit harder to unpack. “Are you bringing in people that are really great at what they do? Are you bringing in people that are really great at what you do?” he asks. Early on, it may be gratifying to find anyone who wants to work with you, but overlooking the deficiencies can compound. A better approach, according to Cristello is to have high standards from the outset, and hire only high performers. “If your goal is to build an amazing service, you have to have amazing people,” he declares.
Your team will look different
Looking ahead, Cristello is optimistic. While the death of the profession has been forecast every year since he entered the industry, “I don’t think finance is going to get less complicated. I don’t think business owners are going to one day wake up and want to do everything themselves,” he says. His expectation is that the emerging AI agents will reshape what a firm’s “team” looks like. These agents will handle low-level work at scale while the core relationship between a finance professional and a small business owner endures.
He also points to the Jevons paradox, which states that something becomes more efficient, the demand for it also increases. “You’re going to see new economies open up, and the current economy get a lot bigger, which I think still speaks well for the accountant.”
Key Takeaways
1. Workflow tools are evolving from task tracking to operational systems for pricing, capacity planning, margin analysis, and client experience management.
2. Firms growing quickly will break their core systems of client onboarding, staffing and pricing every two to four quarters. This is normal and not a sign of failure.
3. Instead of setting 12-month or 18-month revenue targets, some firm owners identify the next most painful problem and solve that.
4. Ambitious growth targets can lead to taking on the wrong clients, over-hiring, and spending years undoing those decisions.
5. The decision to hire depends on what kind of firm an owner wants to build. Some owners thrive when they do the work, while others prefer to build an organization that allows them to step away from the work. There is no right answer, and the answer may change over time.
6. Contractors and nearshore or offshore staff can be a useful way to test whether managing people is something a firm owner enjoys doing.
7. Early stage founders often lower their standards for hiring due to insecurity about whether anyone would want to work for them. However, this compromise compounds as B-players hire C-players.
8. Firm founders are not always natural coaches, so the best early hires are people who are ready to perform on day one. Coaching for skill development becomes possible when you have managers who are wired for it.
9. Suppressing your entrepreneurial identity to become a manager can be soul-crushing and counterproductive. Entrepreneurial types thrive with side projects that bring talent and ideas to the main business.
10. Letting go of an high-performing but difficult team member is painful in the moment, but liberating afterward.
11. Stop treating every client the same. Some clients want the personal touch with conversations about family and interests, while others just want the numbers.
About David Cristello
David Cristello is the founder and CEO of Jetpack Workflow, a workflow and practice management platform built for accounting and bookkeeping firms. As a non-technical founder, he built the company by focusing heavily on customer interviews, operational pain points, and workflow systems, helping grow Jetpack Workflow from a spare-bedroom startup into an Inc. 5000-ranked SaaS company serving thousands of accounting professionals worldwide. He’s also the co-founder of Actually, a nonprofit financial management platform.
David is also the host of the popular “Growing Your Firm” podcast and co-author of the bestselling book Double Your Accounting Firm. Through his writing, speaking, and interviews, he focuses on helping firm owners improve operations, build scalable systems, increase profitability, and create businesses that are less dependent on the founder.
Known for combining customer-centric product development with operational strategy, David frequently speaks on workflow optimization, entrepreneurship, AI in professional services, and scaling service businesses. He has also been recognized as a CPA Practice Advisor “20 Under 40” Top Influencer for his contributions to the accounting technology industry
Transcript
Liz Farr
Welcome to The Disruptors. I’m your host. Liz Farr from CPA Trendlines. My guest today is David Cristello, founder and CEO of Jetpack Workflow, host of the Growing Your Firm podcast and co author with Joe Cassandra of the book Double Your Accounting Firm. Welcome to the show. David, how are you?
David Cristello
Hey, Liz, good to be here, you know it’s so great to be on the show. I feel like we’ve been talking back and forth for years. So I’m just excited to be here.
Liz Farr
Yeah, well, you’ve been on my list as a potential guest for a long time. So finally, I’m glad that our schedules could intersect in this way.
David Cristello
Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited to be here. Great.
Liz Farr
Now, you launched Jetpack Workflow 10 years ago in 2016 and you were one of the first accounting workflow apps around. So how has workflow management changed over the last decade?
David Cristello
Yeah, it’s a great question. And it’s funny that when we launched, you know, there’s a question in my mind, like, Are we too late, you know, you know, and the only reason we launched is because we interviewed so many firms. They told us, like all the other, solutions wouldn’t work for certain reasons. Think I have a founding members group. We’re able to bring them in as customers and really co create the product in many ways with that group. But even at that time, there were legacy solutions, generic solutions. Intuit had purchased a solution a couple years prior called FIFO I you know, they tried to embed it into their ecosystem. Xero had purchased a tool called Pro Workflow and tried to embed it into their ecosystem and and so it was like, on one hand, it felt like we were kind of the first or one of the earliest, like simple workflow software for the industry. But it’s funny, at that time, it felt like, everywhere we looked, there was like a new thing that had been acquired, that had been invested in. And so it’s always funny looking back, just maybe how, how wrong I was about being too late. Because, you know, here we are 2026 and workflow is still relevant, I would say the big difference for 2016 till now. So 2016 it really was, you know, the majority of the conversations was about tracking work. I’m using my spreadsheet to track work. I’m using a legacy tool to try and track work that’s not working and things are falling through the cracks. Of course, we still have these conversations today. I was just talking to a customer this week, and she was like, Thank goodness for Jetpack that they got off of spreadsheets and into Jetpack. So spreadsheets are here. They’re not going anywhere. We hear about them all the time, but more of the customer conversations and more of the market conversations that we’re having is okay. Tracking work is great, but let’s talk about running the firm we’re going to be, you know, talking about staffing decisions, pricing decisions, turnaround time management and the overall client experience. And so, you know, so for example, just thinking about pricing, you know, it’s very common for firms, you know, especially in the client advisory service community, but in other service lines too, to want to get to a fixed fee, flat rate, monthly bill. And what most people do is they’ll run time for 90 days, get the baseline, then roll that into a fixed fee. And then anytime there’s a scope creep, they might charge that client hourly, or they may not, and they may just ruin their margins. And so when they renew that client contract every year, they want to know, Well, based off of the work that was tracked, do we need to increase the client package? Do we need to increase their overall dollar amount? So this is, as maybe always been, an important conversation. It’s more relevant today because a lot of firms are tracking their work in a cloud based system, but maybe they’re not always seeing the margin fluctuation on a client by client basis. So there’s a lot of different kind of aspects now to running your firm that are more prevalent than they were from a technology standpoint in 2016.
Liz Farr
I love hearing that. I mean, you know the firms that I was at, you know, I left public accounting at the end of 2017 and we were using the legacy providers, garbage, Accounting CS and ProFx, which were, I’m not sure what they were good For, but they weren’t very useful. So we always had spreadsheets on the side. But I’m just really tickled to hear that workflow management is not just tracking where a project is in the pipeline, but is in. Encompassing all of running your firm, I think that’s that’s fantastic, because what I’m hearing is that a lot more firms are looking at their operations.
David Cristello
That’s right, that’s right.
Liz Farr
And it’s not just having these isolated processes that you know may not even be shared uniformly across everyone in the firm. More than just that, more than just having a checklist of how you do a task, but really looking at smoothing out the flow of the work and optimizing for getting the work done and keeping the team happy as well as keeping the clients happy. So that’s really cool.
David Cristello
Yeah, absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head. You know, what used to be just checklists and task lists is now about, well, what’s the operating system for the firm? And that’s where everybody’s you know? That is certainly where we’re going, but that’s really where the conversation is going.
Liz Farr
Yeah. Now you’ve been, you’ve been hosting your grow your firm podcast for a long time now. So you have talked to way more people than I have. But I’m just curious, what would you say is the most common thing you hear from your guests?
David Cristello
Yeah, so usually people come onto our show because they’ve experienced some sort of outlier success story. It could be, and it’s typically related to growth, of course. So it could be profit, it could be revenue, it could be time off. I remember, you know, a few years ago when we were talking with folks, and, you know, somebody would say, as an aside, you know, during tax season, they take Fridays off. Or I remember interviewing one firm owner, and she goes, Well, I work one day a week, right? I’m at the place where I work one day a week, and so it’s, it’s, it’s just kind of interesting. You know, when folks come on, they come in for different reasons, but it’s always around growth. And it could be a growth in free time, growth in revenue, growth in profit, whatever it may be. But I would say, like the firm owners, the, you know, they come on, they are, they are typically experimenters. They enjoy the game the challenge of trying to build a better firm, and whether that means better operating systems, better marketing systems, better recruiting systems, better technology platforms. And so because they’re tinkerers and because they’re experimenters, and because they take action, their firms grow. And I think what’s, what’s most common amongst these guests is, and, you know, not always seen in the episodes, is that their system, I mean, they grow faster than their systems can handle. So it’s like they always run into good problems, right? So, so they implement the system. It doesn’t work. They tried differences, but now it really works. And now they have this pipeline of clients who have this upsell opportunity where they can recruit people. But if you’re growing quickly every couple months, or you know at least, you know every every two quarters, systems, like core systems, are going to break. You know your client, you know you figure out how to get more clients. Well, guess what? Your Client Onboarding is going to break. Your staffing is going to break. If you didn’t get your pricing down, and your pricing is going to start to break, your margins are going to start to break. And you know what? Because they are action oriented experimenters, they like, figure it out. You know, it’s not the end of the world again. These are, these are premium problems to have. But you know, we’ve seen it time and time again. It’s like, I really want this thing, I really want this growth or this free time, then I get it, and then I have a new problem, because systems are starting to break down.
Liz Farr
That makes perfect sense. And just a couple of days ago, I had Jason Blumer and Ian Vacin on talking about their their book Scale with Purpose, and they talked about how things just break at certain headcount and revenue ranges. So is that kind of what’s happening with you?
David Cristello
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So they hit they hit a certain revenue threshold, they hit a certain team size, and again, because they’re very entrepreneurial firm owners, they are typically growing, and what you I find when they’re not growing, they might be looking at succession planning, they might have started a new venture. They might be doing something, they might be leaning into speaking and writing books and helping the accounting community. But when they’re in the trenches, they’re like, I want to take this from X to Y, like, these systems are breaking. Growth creates complexities, and systems are what let you survive it, but you’re going to have to go back and rebuild and reinvest and retool your systems very frequently, and a lot more often than you realize when you’re growing, and a lot more often than. Probably even the Growing Your Firm audience realize just how much growth requires them to kind of take a step back and do a lot of not very glamorous work, to kind of fix the process, hire new people, fine tune the delivery or client experience, but you’re but you’re right. There are certain break points in these firms, and every I have not seen a single guest that you know was able to bypass them, right? You know, headcount, headcount of 10 people is, you know, could be a common breaking point. You know, somewhere around low seven figure marks a breaking point we had, I think, was Marcus Dillon, come on, and he talked about breakpoints around, I think, 5 million. Jody Grunden, you know, talked about similar break points. So these are things that it’s hard to get ahead of them, because you don’t want to build a system with the hopes that it will be useful a year or 18 months from now, because that bloat bureaucracy could slow you down today, but it just knowing that, like there will be challenges that come up. If we succeed today, we’re going to have really good challenges tomorrow, and that’s okay, and that’s to be expected.
Liz Farr
All right, right, you know. And another thing that they talk about in the book is, do you want what that growth means?
David Cristello
Yeah. Well, one of the, one of the most surprising, I think, things that came from the from the podcast too, which is, there has been a number of firms that, you know, they don’t, they don’t set even, you know, I mentioned they’re constant tinkerers. Well, they don’t set at 12 months, or an 18 month or 24 month revenue target. A lot of owners are looking at what’s the next most painful problem, and I’m going to solve that thing where owners typically get in trouble, or operators or partners or leaders get into trouble. I mean, I was just talking with Nancy McClelland the other day on the podcast, and she was, like, some of the most miserable years in her firm was when she was at some conference. Was at like, a, I don’t know if it’s a networking event or happy hour, and somebody had asked her about her growth goals, and she was like, Well, I don’t really want to grow. And they were like, are you insane? Like, your business is going to go out of business if you don’t keep growing like, like, what are you doing with your life? Like, why are you not, like, passionate about, you know, building a better, better firm. And she felt very guilty about it, and then started doing all of these things, you know, investing over, investing heavily, investing and marketing and sales and even the team and the tools. And she kind of picked her head up one to two years later, and she’s like, I’ve built a monster. I don’t like any part of this business. I’ve taken on clients I shouldn’t have taken on. You know, we had team members, and because we were trying to bring on more clients, we didn’t maybe onboard them as quickly as enough. And so she was like, let’s go back to our roots of just solving the next problem. We don’t need this, like, grand ambition to take over the world and build this, you know, elaborate organization. You know, we’re not trying to be the next, you know, I struggle to think of an example that hasn’t gone under, but the next Pilot or the next Scale Factor. You know, all these people that have this ambition to be the next top 10 or top four firms in the US, it’s like, I love my firm. I love my clients. What’s the next problem or next thing we need to do to help them? And you know, we’ve interviewed so many firm owners that built just an amazing life, an amazing business. Jason Blumer is one of them, right? Like servicing graphic design companies and creative agencies and trying to, trying to help the next thing that they need help with, versus, like, I want to go out and I need to build a C suite in the next 12 months and do this and that and the other thing I’m just, you know, time and time again, it looks like that just burst in flames. People become overwhelmed. They again, they work with clients they don’t like, and then they have to do this whole process of trimming and trimming and trimming and undoing certain positions they took.
Liz Farr
So it sounds like you’re saying that a theme you’ve seen is people having to figure out what kind of firm they really want, and that that firm that they want is not going to be like the firm down the street. It’s going to be a a version that suits them and them alone.
David Cristello
Yeah, yes, and that can change. You know, I remember interviewing Dave Olsen and the first five years of his life, he was a one person army. He was a outsourced CFO. He built that business to, I think, about half a million ish per year, and he had a great lifestyle business. He has a number of kids. His kids were young, and he just, it was just him, and it’s only him. And. Five, six years into the journey, he’s like, You know what? I think I want to, like, take a shot at making a bigger practice, like, I want to hire people. I want to grow top line. So first five years serving them perfectly, and now he wants to grow and then obviously, you know, his his firm, I think, does about 5 million a year in outsourced CFO and advisory services, and there’s a team and and because the firm’s bigger, he’s now launched IT services for accounting firms. He I think he has a recruiting an offshore recruiting agency, and so if he’s been
able to use it as his sandbox, and he’s in a phase of his life where he likes launching new things off of the platform that he’s built. But that’s way the Dave Olsen of today could not go to the Dave Olsen of the first five years and convince them to build that firm. It just had to come in its right time. So you have to figure out what you want, and then what season you’re in and what type of business you want, like you’re in charge. You get to create this thing how you want to create it.
Liz Farr
And I think that that is the message that, you know, if listeners only get one message from this episode, that has got to be it, you know, build the firm that you want that makes you happy, that brings you joy, because trying to be the next EY is probably just going to make you miserable.
David Cristello
Absolutely. And I mean, I think one of the critical feel like inflection points is this question of, Do you want a team or not? Now this, this question may become blurry in the world of agentic workflows, of what a team even means and what it means when somebody or something is working for you. But I mean, there’s still going to be this question of, question of, Do you want to hire people? It’s a big step. And I remember talking with somebody, and he’s like, I hired people, and gosh almighty, it was the worst. It was the worst thing for me. I don’t like being a manager. I don’t want leading people. I just like my thing, and that’s it. And I want to be like the person. I want to be the sole mechanic fixing cars. I want to be the shoemaker just fixing shoes. I don’t want to have a team of shoemakers. And so he scaled it down and got rid of the team, and scaled back down the business. I talked with Angel Zhen Angel Zhen was the firm innovation, owner of the year at Digital CPA, so his, you know, face was plastered all over the conference. I talked to him. It’s just him. He’s the only full time employee in the firm, and he loves technology. He kind of likes, you know, exploring Claude and ChatGPT and gosh knows what else is going to come out tomorrow. And he, you could just tell he really likes his clients. He really likes his niche. And he really likes tinkering with, like, what’s the tool and how can I use this to help my clients? And there’s no, you know, plan to build out this big team, even though, I mean, he could hire two or three people under his revenue tomorrow, but he’s, like, why would I he takes 12 or 13 weeks of vacation a year, like, like like he he’s winning, like he totally has what he wants. And so somebody telling him to build out a team for the sake of redundancy or succession planning, that he’s not in that season. He’s not in that mindset. I mean, he has a great practice, and that’s, that’s totally okay. But I find that this question of, like, hiring people, or hiring, you know, 12345, people, it’s, it’s kind of this fork in the road moment of like asking yourself, what, what kind of firm do I want to become? What kind of firm do I want to build? And that’s, that’s an important question,
Liz Farr
That really is a big question, you know, and that’s probably why I, myself have remained as a solo business while I’ve been a copywriter, that you know, I know that I’m happiest when it’s just me, when I don’t have to be producing something, or when somebody else isn’t relying on me to be fed work to do.
David Cristello
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You just use it to have a great business. And you like your business like, I remember talking with a consultant one time. He was, he’s a coach too, in some of the in the accounting industry and some outside of it, and and his name was John. I’m like, John, I’m like, John, what kind of business are you trying to build? He’s like, Well, I really, I he’s like, I’m trying to build a book of business, not like a company. Like, I’m not worried about building a company from a book of business. I want some great clients that I can work with. And, you know, in his in his season, and, you know, empty nester and him and his wife like to travel like, you know, he didn’t tell me the exact number, but he’s like, he probably wants to work 15 to work 15 to 20 hours a week. Have a great set of clients. And to him, that’s perfection, right? So it’s just knowing, it’s just knowing what you want. I mean, you’re absolutely correct, yeah.
Liz Farr
So you know, you talk about this fork in the road for whether you want to hire or not. What would make it more appealing to higher versus not higher? You know, how can somebody figure that out for themselves?
David Cristello
Well, this is a little bit about, you know, people problems are the hardest problems. And so, you know, if you hire somebody, you don’t have to work with them forever, and you can always get new people, and you can always go back to a solo practice, you know, just you if you want, as well. But I think it comes down to, you know, do you love sitting down, head down, and doing the work for hours on end. Or do you see that as like a stepping stone to the next part of the business? Like, you know, like I’m doing these tax returns now I’m doing CFO work now. I’m doing the month end close now, but part of my dream is to get out of this as quickly as possible so I can do content creation for my industry or niche, or I want to go speak at conferences, or I want to do partnerships. I want to be outside networking and meeting people. I might want to get into other businesses. And so, you know, obviously have to be good at the the or you typically, you know, good at the craft. But you know, there is this question of, you know, getting getting out of it. And when do you want to get out of it? So I think if you’re fine just doing the work, you can do the work all day long. It’s, you know, what it’s like, what I said, What Angel does, and he’s very successful at it. And he’s not dreading tax season. Tax season is hard, but he’s not dreading going into tax season. When he goes into tax season, if you’re dreading actually doing the work, is probably a good sign, like, Hey, you can hire people to take this on. You can hire people to do it. And again, it’s To each their own
Liz Farr
Exactly, exactly, you know. And I remember, I think, back to the firms I worked at and many of the partners were really much more interested in just doing the work themselves, and so it was really hard for them to imagine taking on more of an advisory role or doing things differently because they were just so focused on doing the work, you know, reviewing the returns, or sometimes even just doing preparing the returns, that was what really made them happy. And so there was almost no way that they were going to step into doing anything different.
David Cristello
Yes, yeah. I mean, if you are, I mean, we see this a lot, you know, in the in the software landscape, if you’re a great engineer, doesn’t mean you’re going to be a great engineering manager. It doesn’t mean you’ll be a great VP of engineering. Doesn’t mean you’d be potentially a great CTO, although, if you’re a great engineer, you probably could have a closer track to to CTO than maybe an engineering manager, where you’re working on technical decisions, and less so on people management. But, I mean, that’s kind of what you got to figure out for yourself. And there’s, there’s no harm, I suppose, in, you know, trying to start with contractors, with nearshore, offshore folks. Before you jump into the waters of a full time hire, there’s, you can, you can we see it all the time. You can, we can work with folks that they work 20 hours a week. And you can kind of just get a sense of, you know, is this, is this? Are you creating an environment that you that you like? Do you like? You know, working with other people. You know, I remember interviewing Joe, and I can’t remember Joe’s last name, which is sad, because he’s a he has an Italian name, just like me, and we were talking about on the podcast, but I can’t remember, but he runs a software company called Amalgam. But prior to that, he had built a an accounting firm to multimillion dollar run rate before he sold it, and when Joe started his firm, he came in, and his first hire was, like, a senior, senior, senior tax manager. And he was like, he wanted to get out of the work right
away. He was like, I can’t wait to get out of this work, so I’m going to hire the most senior person I know, because I know she’ll be able to not only do the work, but she’ll be able to hire the team members around that work like I just don’t want to do any of it now that we’re here. And so again, there’s people like Joe that have hired and that allowed him to go out and sell and build marketing systems and sales systems, I would argue, like Michael Ly from Reconciled, is probably similar. He built a lot of growth systems very quickly, you know. But then I’ve talked to other people, they started hiring, you know, they were the senior tax manager themselves, essentially. And they started hiring people, and they’re like, Oh, I just want to just be by myself. Do taxes? Have a good multi figure, six figure revenue, you know, or salary. Per year, and like, I’m happy and I’m good, you know, Yuri, the fun, the fun. CPA, you know, Yuri is very public. I think he works about 30 hours a week, a little bit more during tax season, a little bit less during the off season, and it’s him, and he has a contractor, and he’s like, running just a great lifestyle business, and I don’t see any desire from him to hire more people. So again, it just goes back to to know yourself.
Liz Farr
Yeah, now, now you’ve talked to a lot of people who have teams. And so what ideas have you picked up, which help to attract and retain the best people.
David Cristello
Yeah, so I have, I have a bucket A and bucket B, alright, so I’ll go through, I’ll go through bucket a first. So bucket a is, you know, are there? Are there clear expectations? Does that? Does the team member applying for the job, and your current team? Do they know what success looks like? Do they have autonomy? You know, high performers, great people, in their job. They want to have ownership over their work. Do they get ownership? Do you have proof that they get ownership? You have current team members that can speak to the level of ownership they have. And then, last, you know, do they have a a future they can grow into? It doesn’t have to be this corporate professional development ladder. It could be things like like, do you, do you have ride alongs or virtual ride alongs? Do you bring staff to client meetings? Do they see how you advise clients, how you pull out information from clients, how you suggest things, how you position things, how you build client relationships? It could be something like that. And so many, many ways in these kind of larger firms, is these ride alongs. I’ve interviewed so many people, they’re like, Oh, these ride alongs had such a deep impact on me, because I could see how my manager really was able to build these relationships. And a lot of people will look at that specific exercise and they’ll be like, that’s when I fell in love with accounting, like I liked it already, and I got into it because I wanted a good job with good salary, but when I saw my manager, they and they took me to the client meetings, and I could see the conversations and the trust being built. I knew I was in the right profession. So I would think about that. Do they have clear expectations? They have autonomy, and are you putting them in areas where they could absorb, either directly or through osmosis, soft or, hard skills? So that’s kind of bucket a. I think bucket bucket b is a little bit harder to to unpack, but bucket b is essentially, you know, are you bringing in people that are really great at what they do? Are you bringing in people that are really great at what you do? And believe me, everybody, myself included, has made mistakes where you’re like, early on, you’re just so happy. Anybody joins your team, you’re like, thank you. I need the help. Thank goodness. You know, I could see some warts here or there, but I have warts. You have warts. We have warts. Everything’s fine. But, you know, if you lower the standard, that really does compound. So it’s the, it’s the, it’s the old business, you know, I don’t know adage, I suppose, which is, like, you know, if you hire a B player, they’ll hire C players, and then so on and so forth. I’m just thinking like, are they, are they great at what you do? And when you hire people that are great at what they do, they have, you know, when Joe was talking about that tax manager that he hired and and he was like, I could never be the tax specialist she was. I could never lead the team the way she could. I could never build it out the way she could. I mean, she was just a rock star. She was amazing. Well, guess what? When she goes out and she goes to hire people for the tax team and she has high standards, she’s going to hire people that also has high standards. They’re really great. And if you have a team of two that have high standards, they might know somebody in their network that operates in the same way, because you’re going to get referrals and people are going to come in. So like attracting and retaining the best people you know, just make sure that the people you have are fantastic. That’s the fastest and best way you know. Give them those things, give them, give them, give them clear expectations, autonomy, put them in growth opportunities. High performers want to do this, but just really make sure your team, if you had to start all over again today, you would rehire each and every one of them. That’s the biggest influence on attracting the right talent is how good your current team is today.
Liz Farr
Now, a lot of people, a lot of people I’ve talked to emphasize hiring for culture fit first and then working on the skills. So what do you think? Because you didn’t really talk about culture fit in there, except that in terms of having the work ethic of doing really good work.
David Cristello
So I think, I think they have, like, you know, you have to have high agency. They have to have high standards. They have to be humble. I mean this, I’m talking things I like, right? So, um, you know, so you have to define what great looks like and what your hope. To get you know, you and your partner could sit down and talk about this year, and your current team can talk about this, but in my mind, you know, I’ve seen less impact of like creating catchy slogans for culture, acronyms, they there are some directionally very useful things there, but at the end of the day, if you’re you know, and again, I think, like, we’re here, we’re building businesses, we’re building services. We’re building products like, let’s make them great, you know, if I’m building a service, I want the client to be wowed. I want them to feel great. I want them to feel advised. I want them to feel taken care of. I want to go above and beyond, and I want to do this without, like, killing ourselves every week to do it. So there is, there is a balance. And not saying, like, everybody’s working 100 hours a week, but like, let’s say that your that your mentality. I’m sure you can pack that into a cultural acronym that speaks to those attributes. And I think that’s all well and good, but the real pressure test is like, do you really hire somebody that exhibits that, or do you let yourself follow you know, your standards, like, 1234, 5% because, again, in the early days, you’re so insecure about, can anybody come work for me? This is crazy. It’s just me in a room. I barely know what I’m doing. The fact that anybody would work for me, it’s just insane, right? So you kind of drop, like, who you think is going to be a great fit? And that’s, it’s really, really, that’s some of the most painful decisions, is when you have to kind of rebuild the team. And so I’m just saying that, you know, don’t, if you’re, if you’re, if your goal is to build an amazing service, you have to have amazing people. You wouldn’t. You wouldn’t build a restaurant and be like, well, the chef, you know, it’s the best we could get at the time, right? Nobody’s gonna say, this is the world’s best restaurant, or this is the world’s best restaurant in, you know, the East End of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, whatever, whatever little neck of the wood you want to build something amazing in, but you don’t want to, you don’t want to say, well, you know, the chef’s not very good, but it’s the best we could find. You know, you know the server, the server doesn’t really make eye contact, but, you know, hey, we’re trying to work through it, right? Like it’s very, it’s very hard to do that. There are some people that are just great managers, great managers that can really be there, essentially, you know, the coach of that person. They can really level them up. What I found, and I could, I’m biased here in my interviews. But like when I speak to the founders of accounting firms, they are typically less of the coach. Let me slowly get you to make eye contact. And instead they’re like, we need to we you need to come to this firm ready to make eye contact. Some of the things Jeff to just be table stakes because I’m so busy. I have a million, you know, things in the air. I have a million things on the stove, and I like it that way. That’s part of the reason maybe I wanted to go into my own firm so I don’t have the patience and process and detail to work with you methodically every week to build up certain skills that might change as you get to a larger firm, once you have a few dozen people, and you have managers that are maybe slightly different than the firm founder, and those managers are like, Oh, I can’t wait to level you up. I’m going to sit with you, and we’re going to build that plan, and we’re going to work that plan every single week, and I’m going to be that coach you never had, and I’m going to up level you, and here we go. And that’s great. The firm owners and founders typically don’t have that personality. Again, I’m painting with a broad brush here, so some do. So I’m just saying in those early hires, you know, find people that are ready to go day one, and you can, you can maybe hire more for a culture and less for skill, as you get managers that can actually train them up.
Liz Farr
Okay, yeah, because I’ve talked to to people from both camps who say, you know, it’s really important to have like this, this cultural North Star, something that your firm stands for. You know your why, for why the firm operates. And then there are others who just say, we just want to do good work and provide great service. And that’s that’s all we need. You know, we don’t need to go on this vision quest exercise. We just want to do good work and provide good service. So what do you think of that?
David Cristello
I’m going to get in trouble here because I yeah, I’m going to get in trouble. I mean, I’m very much in the camp of a great service. You know, we want to, we want to provide, we want to provide work that we’re proud of, and we want to do it with people that we love working with. So if you call that a cultural North Star, fine, you don’t need to. You can just kind of outline it there, whatever that means for you. I think sometimes i. I’ve seen, and I’ve personally been through this, and it’s some scar tissue I’m talking about, where you get so hyped up on, you know, the language of that cultural north star and the exercises to get there that you think that’s the end outcome, like, oh, we achieved it. We have this thing. Of course, everybody speaks to now. We need to live it out, and they find all these games and gimmicks to try and figure it out. But the people that I find maybe live out the culture are the ones that are maybe a little bit less obsessed about, you know, the acronyms and the fancy logos on the site. And they’re like, well, we want to provide service we’re really proud of. We’re gonna, we’re gonna treat every client like we’re talking to our grandma in terms of the care, you know, we’re trying to provide to them. We’re not going to be upset with them. We’re going to be patient with them, you know, whatever it may be. And we’re going to work with people that are high agency, incredibly intelligent and humble, right? Because I, you know, believe me, I’ve also worked with and hired people that they were great at their job, and boy, they’re the most difficult people to work with. And you know, I had a part ways with them, and I wish them all the best. It just wasn’t a right fit here. And you know, it’s painful to let them go, but I was able to, like, exhale, and it felt so good. And I was so at peace with the team when the team kind of got unified, but, but, you know, the ones that that I see work out the best culturally is they, they spend more time obsessing over the product quality, the service quality, than trying to check some sort of box of some framework they read out of a business book, you know, if that makes sense so and maybe I’m a little bit in the middle, maybe there’s a cop out answer. I don’t know.
Liz Farr
No, I think that’s a good answer, you know, because I was at firms where there was this big exercise to figure out the vision for the firm or a mission statement. And so then at the end, we got this beautiful poster for the break room wall, and that was it so. But, and the ideas, the ideal in that vision statement, were never really part of how the firm operated.
David Cristello
Yep.
Liz Farr
And so that’s more important, I think.
David Cristello
Yeah, and I think sometimes it’s hard because, you know, I’m not going to name names, but, you know, people will pick out companies, they’ll cherry pick companies, and they’ll say the reason Apple was successful was because, and we’re all just kind of like blind, there’s so many facets that go into it. But I think, you know, the turnaround of Apple, we know, like Steve Jobs was, was very he simplified everything. He took a large plot product line and he simplified it down to four products, and he wanted to make something, you can argue the language of it that he was incredibly proud of. You could tell when he got on stage, he was beaming, right? He just, he just, it was a storyteller. He got to transform the products. You know, did they need to have things plastered everywhere to make that happen? Or was it, you know, the team there was just like, this is the time. This is our time. This is the transformation we’re building, something we’re gonna be so freaking proud of. You know, I was, you know, studying recently Rick Rubin, co founder of Def Jam Records, notable music producer. He’s produced. I mean, it’s crazy that people has produced. I didn’t even know it’s Johnny Cash, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Beastie Boys. LL Cool J, just a wide variety of genres. And, you know, what did he do? He didn’t have like this, this the values and mission statement. You know, he was like, I want to make, you know, an album that I’m just, I’m just, I would love to listen to, and I’m just so incredibly proud of and I’m proud of at that time. So I just find that the people that you know, typically build great things, they’re just, they’re very simple and authentic and sincere. They just really, really want to do great work. And sometimes those exercises can help. But I think oftentimes it becomes a an exercise that is, unfortunately, a lot of wasted time to build something that ends up on a poster that nobody looks at
Liz Farr
Exactly, exactly. Now I’m going to switch gears here a little bit and ask you a couple questions. I ask a lot of the guests on my podcast, and I ask these because I get some really fascinating answers. So what would you say is the most valuable mistake you’ve made, and that’s valuable in terms of the lessons you learned?
David Cristello
Oh, my goodness. So, you know, depending on the day, maybe it could slightly change. But some of the most valuable mistakes I’ve learned, I mean, I have alluded to it earlier, and I think some of my biggest mistakes were the, suppose, lack of confidence that I had. Had around building the team and just feeling like, you know, a Okay, team is good enough, because I was afraid of having confrontational discussions, conflict avoidant or I would kind of say, well, I don’t know what. I don’t know. There’s parts of the business that’s, you know, I used to be a social worker. I don’t have a business background. I don’t have an accounting background. I had to learn a lot of things, you know, over multiple times. And so when it comes to certain parts of the business, I’m like, well, person X is telling me it’s great. Person y is telling me great. Outside consultants telling me it’s great. But then I look at what’s happening in the business, and it’s still not great, and I’m like, Well, maybe if everyone keeps saying it’s great, and people, people just say, well, just give it time. Just give it time, you know, just let it, let it wait. Well, I gave it time, and nothing got better, right? I gave it so much time, and nothing got better. And we tried this thing and that thing and that thing, and it’s just like, I just held on to I felt like I held on to people for way too long. You know, I knew they were trying. I knew they were good people. I liked them as people. I liked them being as part of the company. They were great to interact with. But, man, it was it just, it just held back the company on so many levels, because I was personally comfortable having them around, and it wasn’t like they were terrible, you know, like the hardest, you know, biggest mistakes is like they were they were good or good enough, and I was just a good enough leader. So I’m a good enough leader managing good enough people. And that’s a, that’s a terrible conversation, you know, equation to have. And so, you know, not trying to expose myself to what a great company could look like early and often enough, is probably one of my biggest mistakes. I didn’t know what a high performing software company looked like. Again, I’m a social worker, no business background. I applied for tech companies. Back to see, oh, this is the ideal, perfect, high performance way something is run. I had to go through it, through many seasons of trial and error. But again, my biggest mistake is I just held on for too long, thinking like, well, this is good enough. And, gosh, I just don’t know if I have the energy to rock the boat yet again and fix it. So I just, I just held on for too long. I tried to fix other parts of the business that were easier or more more exciting for me to fix, but the real problem was still festering right there, and I never, I never put my eyes on it, and it just it took way too long for me to figure it out.
Liz Farr
I’ve heard the same kind of mistake from many other people, and I saw that in the firms where I worked as well, that there were certain people who you liked. They were smart, they were great people, but they just didn’t belong in that firm. Yeah, and because of that, they really made people kind of crazy, you know, oh my god, I have to work with this person. I have to do this project with that person. Oh, my god,
David Cristello
Yeah.
Liz Farr
And so it really made it difficult. So I’m glad that you figured that out.
David Cristello
I need to be reminded of it at, you know, of course, I mean, you didn’t ask for two I could give you 2000 but the other one was just again, thematic with the interview, not knowing who I am. You know, I had so much joy starting Jetpack Workflow. And even though the years are very ambiguous and chaotic, they were just so fun in the beginning of trying to figure everything out. And then, as we grew, it was like, well, now I need to be, I need to be CEO, you know, I need to, I need to. I need to have these letters, right? And what are these letters mean? And I need to do these activities and things and hire these people and, you know, run certain cadences for, you know. I need to do performance reviews in this way, and one on ones in this way. We need to do quarterly planning in this way. Are you going to do OKRs? Well, I don’t know. You can also do MBOs as MBOs versus OKRs, like, what you know is all alphabet soup and and so I spent years, I think, trying to tear out the entrepreneur out of me and turn me into a manager. And I’m a I am definitely not the world’s greatest manager. I don’t think I’m terrible, but I’m definitely not world class. And so it’s like, well, what should I be doing? Because, and I didn’t know that to the point like I didn’t know that until I actually spent some time there, and I always felt guilty like I shouldn’t do any other entrepreneurial endeavors outside of Jetpack. Like, stay focused on Jetpack. And like, and it’s not to say I’m not focused on Jetpack, but I felt so guilty about doing anything else, because I’m like, this is the way. I mean, like, how many companies did Bill Gates start? One? Like, you don’t need to start 10 to be successful. Michael Dell, one, right? You don’t need a million companies. So just stay focused. And I just trying to turn myself into this corporate manager of sorts. And I was soul crushing for me, right? Like, there’s a reason I ended up starting a business in the first place versus, you know, probably, probably getting a typical job. And so over the last, I mean, it’s only over the last year where I started to, like, look at other entrepreneurial opportunities that I found myself in a much more inspired and much more creative space. Projects also help each other out. So things I’m doing outside of Jetpack, I find talent that I can pull into Jetpack, ideas I can pull into Jetpack. And so I just felt very, felt like, you know, kind of boring. As somebody who likes to start things and is entrepreneurial, I try to turn that off, because unconsciously, I felt like that’s what I needed to do to become the leader that would move this, this company, to the right direction. And it’s and it’s just not who I am, and I try to be that person, and I’m not, and I’m having so much more fun, you know, kind of living in a world that’s more entrepreneurial and starting more things. But it took a couple years of of like, you know, muted, I’ll call it muted existence, to figure that out.
Liz Farr
That’s right. And, and I’m so glad that you figured this out on your own. That’s, you know, there are certain people who are wired to be entrepreneurial and starting new things and building things, and then there are people who are wired to just want to help the founder, build the thing, to be the support. And so you’re definitely in the entrepreneurial camp. I’m more in the support camp, yeah.
David Cristello
And for me, you know, let’s say I’m a D plus or C plus in the support camp. And I worked, I worked so hard for years in that in that world, the managerial world, and maybe I got to a B minus, I don’t know, maybe a C plus, I don’t know. Whereas maybe in the entrepreneurial world, I started at a B minus, and I could take it up to it an A or an A plus, and so, you know, but again, it was just maybe naivety, overconfidence and being able to kind of adapt who I am to certain situations, but, you know, now I’m like, Well, I really like this sandbox. There’s so much space to go in there and play, and the managerial stuff, I have so much respect for, you know, I’ve hired and I’ve worked with and I’ve interviewed really amazing leaders and partners. You know, we had folks from mid market firms that are just, they’re, they’re, they’re amazing leaders and their partners inside of a big CAS division, and they’re fantastic. You know, you hear the stories of how they how they transform that firm from an operational or efficiency perspective, from a from a people and process perspective, that’s wonderful. That’s not my skill set. I could not, I could not go in and do what they did by any stretch of the imagination, if I tried to, and even if I got close to doing what they did, I would be so exhausted. I’d be so drained, I would I would be so stressed out. I would be stress eating all day long, you know, trying to will myself to do what they were doing exactly.
Liz Farr
And we all have to find our own path, and it’s not going to be the same for every person.
David Cristello
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And going back to some of the people I’ve interviewed, they sell their firm, and some people are like, that’s it. I’m done, you know, I’ll go, maybe I’ll go build the next thing. There’s people that sell their firm and they’re like, Great, I’m gonna, I’m now gonna go work for a new firm, or I’m going to work in a new industry. And so, you know, they decided, like, I sold it, I’m good, but oh my gosh, I do not want to start another thing like that. Was that was not like, it worked out fine. That’s not who I am. I am done with that chapter of my life, and I’m going to go back to being more of the supportive role. So, you know, every everything’s an evolution, and just trying to get an understanding of who you are and where your greatest contribution can lie
Liz Farr
Absolutely; now, what do you think accountants should stop doing immediately?
David Cristello
This is a tough one. I’m going to give one that’s a little bit counter, you know, as a as a process and a workflow solution, and I’m going to give something that’s a little counter. And I’m going to say, by and large, if you’re doing this, you got to stop it immediately. And that’s treating every client the same, right? So you can have your process and but you know, we’re in the people business, and not only is the client process going to be slightly different, like, we all have clients that you know, bless their soul, they just open up credit cards all the time. You’re like, another another feed I need to worry about, like, they’re just over. Putting off credit cards, and they’re just, and you just, I mean, even at a very tactical level, yes, you have to say what bank accounts and what credit cards, you know, they have on file. But there are some clients that are like, they need the How is your family doing? You know? How are the
kids doing anything great over the weekend. There’s other clients that are like, give me my numbers. You know, how am I doing? When do I run out of cash? Do I have more cash this year than last year? Than last year? Right? They just want to get into it. So it’s a relational difference, and it’s it’s also a tactical difference. There are some clients that that they want the phone call. There are other clients that want the loom video instead. And I’m not saying you need to open up every avenue of how to engage or interact with a client, but some version of, you know, options, I think is useful here. So very simple, tactical example, we had a firm that that, you know, they’re having all these issues communicating with their clients, and so they said, Look, dear clients, we’re going to support two communication channels. I’m sorry. Three. You can text, you can call, you can email. Sometimes I tell this story and a firm owner’s listening, and they’re like, I would never text my clients. Great. You don’t have to include that in your options that you send to your clients. That’s fine. They included three and and they asked them, What is your preferred method of communication, and whatever you select, just know, like we expect, you know, roughly figured it was one business day response. It doesn’t we’re not going to hold you to it, but if we’re communicating to you in the way you want to be communicated with, we expect a timely reply back. And so they gave clients the kind of option to opt in to the phone call versus the email versus the text message. And so that’s just a tactical, very small example, but all these little service touches, relational touches, process changes, they all make a little difference in the client relationship. I’ve talked to firms and clients of firms that they’re like, I am never leaving Firm A because of the advisory videos I get sent. Oh my gosh. I love these little, you know, loom videos they send me. It’s the best, right? I love the loom videos. There are other clients that are like, if you don’t come meet with me in person, like you’re nobody to me like, I need to you need to come to the office and meet with me. And we need to dig into the numbers in person. Because this video, I don’t have the time, attention capacity to look at these videos. I need to meet with you. So just, you know. And that goes into, you know, not only treating clients different, but like making make sure you pick the right client and and then go all in and trying to serve that, that ideal client, even if they have some relational or tactical differences.
Liz Farr
That’s all really good advice. And now I want you to put on your crystal ball. Get out your crystal ball. Where do you see the accounting industry in 10 years?
David Cristello
Oh my gosh, I wish you asked me this question two years ago, because two years ago felt more certain than 2026 right? So, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s hard. I will say that. You know, I’ve been in the industry for 10 years. As soon as I entered the industry, people were like, David, good luck, because accountants, they’re going away. You don’t understand, you know. And even, even when I was interviewing the market, you know, you have machine learning. You have this, that and the other thing, things are going to be automated, and accounting are going away. So the death of the accounting industry has been forecasted every year since I’ve been in it’s probably even been before that. All that to say is I don’t think it’s going anywhere. I think the trend of saying it’s going to die will will persist. I think every year it’s going to be a great headline. This is the next way that accountants go away and the industry goes away. I don’t think finance is going to get less complicated. I don’t think business owners are going to one day wake up and want to do everything themselves. That’s I don’t think they’re really built that way. Most, most people do not want to open up the general ledger and look at a P&L and kind of run through the numbers, even if they have their own co pilots. I do think there is going to be something enduring and very interesting about these agents. You know, who knows? In five years, we may call them something else. We used to call them bots agents. I know they’re slightly different technology, but I think there’s going to be agentic experiences. We have team members, and you can call them Sally and Fred and David, but they’re just going to be agents that run in the background. They’re going to take on, you know, as much low level work as possible. So I think the DNA of what a firm looks like and what they consider a team is going to change dramatically. I But I think the complexity is only going to
increase in the in the world of finance. And I think the relationship of a finance professional with a small business client is going to endure how that’s delivered and how that, you know, you know, can change, but I think that relationship is going to endure, and in a world where you have kind of infinite agents potentially working for you, and your robot assistants running around for and I’m talking about physical Robots running for you in the world, and drones dropping packages on your head. I still think there’s going to be a world in which that accounting, that finance relationship with a small business owner is going to be there. It’s going to look slightly different. It’s going to, you know, it looked different 10 years ago. It’s going to look different 10 years from now. 10 years ago, I was talking with, I think it was maybe Nancy again, where she said, like, back in the day, it was inconceivable that that somebody, you know, a small firm, would be doing payroll, bookkeeping, tax, tax advisory, all in one go, even as a small shop. Well, that’s possible now. So I think the services can evolve, the quantity of services can evolve, but the relationship will endure.
Liz Farr
I agree with you there, the human part is what will what will endure. You know, we can let the robots do the drudgery work, but the human interaction, the face to face, even if it is with a camera. That is what will endure.
David Cristello
Yeah, and I think there’s, and I forget the pair. I forget what the paradox is called, but there’s this. There’s this really common paradox that’s being run around, that the more efficient something becomes, it increases the the demand for, for for that thing. And so the, the classic example was like, you know, as coal production became more efficient, or as engines became more efficient, it only increased the amount of travel that was happening, so the industry overall, and the demand for that industry only increased. And we’re seeing this, you know, the first, the first domino everybody’s trying to tackle is like, you know, full scale, 24/7 software development. And what you’ve seen is that that, you know, because the barriers are being reduced, the amount of digital products are increasing at a dramatic rate, but then also the need for software developers, you know, so last year, everyone says it’s the end of software developers, the the amount of folks hiring now is increasing because, you know the you need the judgment and you need the context to build to build great architecture. And so yes, we’re going to be living more digitally. There’s a greater demand for digital products and goods. It’s easier for folks to build them, but you’re actually seeing an increase in the need for software developers that are senior, that have good judgment, have good context. So I think this world, we’re driving some pretty interesting levels of efficiency you’re going to see, you know, new economies open up, and the current economy get a lot bigger, which I think still speaks well for the accountant.
Liz Farr
I think you’re right there. Well, I want to thank you so much for showing up here today. It’s been wonderful talking to you, David and and I hope that we get to do this again sometime, because, you know, you went before we started recording, you were doubtful about whether you would have anything interesting to say. But I
David Cristello
I’m usually asking questions. That’s why I’m usually the question asker,
Liz Farr
yeah, but you, if you talk to enough people, you can’t help but absorb a lot of interesting ideas yourself. So I appreciate that. Yeah, it’s been great having you on here. Now if listeners want to connect with you, where’s the best way to find you? Yeah.
David Cristello
So most prolific on LinkedIn. So just David Cristello on LinkedIn. That’s where I’ll post new episodes, product updates, different projects I’m involved in. So that’s the great place, you know, for me and what kind of what I’m up to, you know, from the company perspective, from the podcast perspective, everything’s linked up at JetpackWorkflow.com you can also see the podcast in the footer. We drop an episode every two weeks, and one of those two places a great way to kind of get a hold of me or see some of my projects.
Liz Farr
Well, thanks so much. And like I said, I hope that we get to do this again sometime, and I look forward to seeing you at the next conference somewhere.
David Cristello
Sounds good. Thanks for having me on
Liz Farr
Well, thank you. Have a great rest of your day.