Stop counting minutes. Start creating meaning.
Originally published May 2025
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Gear Up for Growth
With Jean Caragher
For CPA Trendlines
In a re-energizing episode of Gear Up for Growth, Paul Dunn makes the case that the billable hour isn’t just outdated—it’s holding firms back. The four-time TEDx speaker and cofounder of B1G1 challenges accounting leaders to rethink how success is measured and to lead with purpose, not punch clocks.
Gear Up for Growth spotlights the best strategies for smart and efficient growth in today’s competitive landscape. More Gear Up for Growth here | More Jean Caragher here | Get her best-selling handbook, The 90-Day Marketing Plan for CPA Firms, here | More CPA Trendlines videos and podcasts here
Talking with host Jean Caragher, Dunn reframes the profession’s obsession with time as a distraction from what clients actually value. “It’s not about the inputs,” he says. “It’s about the outcomes.” When firms anchor their work to results—and to the human impact behind those results—growth follows naturally.
More than two decades after coauthoring “The Firm of the Future,” Dunn remains a vocal critic of six-minute increments. While some firms are inching toward value pricing and advisory-led models, he argues the real shift requires courage. Measuring work by time, he notes, is “the opposite of human flourishing.” Measuring by impact, on the other hand, elevates both clients and teams.
Dunn also takes aim at what he calls the profession’s “sea of sameness.” Firms don’t stand out by polishing processes alone—they stand out by standing for something. Purpose, he explains, isn’t a slogan on a website; it’s a North Star that guides decisions, shapes culture, and deepens trust with clients.
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That purpose-first mindset has ripple effects. It attracts talent, improves retention, and turns routine engagements into meaningful partnerships. As the pandemic forced many professionals to reassess how—and with whom—they spend their time, Dunn sees an opportunity for firms to build businesses that matter now and for generations to come.
4 Key Takeaways
- Outcomes beat hours. Clients pay for results and reassurance, not minutes logged.
- Legacy is lived daily. Firms grow by contributing, not consuming—impact compounds over time.
- Purpose fuels performance. Connection to values, people, and self drives motivation and loyalty.
- Standing out requires a stand. Firms differentiate when they clearly define what they believe in.
More About Paul Dunn
Paul Dunn is a four-time TEDx speaker, co-founder of B1G1 Business for Good, and the founder of Results Accountants Systems. He has received numerous honors for his work, including the Global Lifetime Achievement Award for service to the accounting profession in the UK. Paul is the co-author, along with Ron Baker, of “The Firm of the Future: A Guide for Accountants, Lawyers, and Other Professional Services,” published in 2003.
Transcript
(Transcripts are made available as soon as possible. They are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.)
Jean: Hello, and thank you for joining “Gear Up for Growth” powered by CPA Trendlines. I’m Jean Carragher, President of Capstone Marketing, and your host. Our guest is Paul Dunn, a four-time TEDx speaker, cofounder of B1G1, Business For Good, and the founder of Results Accountants’ Systems. Paul, welcome to “Gear Up for Growth.”
Paul: Oh, well, welcome. Well, thank you. I should say, but thank you. It is such a such a delight to be with you. And we were thinking before we went live kinda thing, when was it when we last met? And I’m not sure when it was, but I know that you’re everywhere and ubiquitous and everything else. So it is just so lovely to be with you. And, of course, thanks to the folks at CPA Trendlines and Rick and all for making this possible.
Jean: Wonderful. Well, I’m glad all this has worked out because I’ve got a lot of great questions to ask you.
Paul: Oh, good.
Jean: Okay. So we’re gonna start with the book you coauthored with Ron Baker…
Paul: Yeah.
Jean: …called “The Firm of the Future: A Guide for Accountants, Lawyers, and Other Professional Services.” And that book was published back in 2003, right?
Paul: I remember it well.
Jean: Right? So what has changed since you wrote the book and what hasn’t changed enough?
Paul: That’s a great question. Well, I think in the book, we actually mentioned floppy disks, so that’s…
Jean: How about fax machines? Yeah.
Paul: Yeah. We mentioned fax machines too. Yes. And so, obviously, all of that has changed, but I think the basic premise of what we were talking about, in terms of the firm of the future, was still really valid. And, essentially, what we were saying back then, one of the things we were saying back then, there’s a lot of things we were saying, was was that the profession needs to move from reporting on history to being able or to create history, start creating history for its selected clients. And, of course, when you think about that, that means that, obviously, the way in which people charge for services, they need to recognize that the inputs are not the key, the outcomes are the key. And then you get through all the, you know, the value pricing stuff and all of that kind of stuff. So all of that and way back in 2003, the same issues were there. People were saying, “Oh, you can’t get team members.” They still persist in saying staff. I wish they wouldn’t do that. But, anyway, let’s call them team members here. So they are, you know, you can’t get good people, then you can’t get… And it’s almost as if it’s happening to them as opposed to happening from them.
I remember being at an event recently, and I’m sitting next to a young 26 year old who’d had a really interesting, meaning challenging, life. And I was asking what he thought about something that the presenter just said. And he said, “Well, Paul, I think I’ve got it figured out.” He said, “What I think is this.” He said, “My life gets easier when I realize that life comes from me, not at me.” And I thought, “Woah.” Out of the mouths of babes. You know what I’m saying? And I think the other thing that people are now perhaps resonating with, although we didn’t say it, we didn’t articulate this in a sentence anywhere, but I think now what’s happening is we are seeing some of the issues that are playing out because most accountants do not realize. I was doing a session recently, which was where I had an opening slide which said, “It’s really great to be with heroes.” Right? And then underneath it, it said, “Heroes who don’t actually know that they are and don’t actually act as if they are.”
And so I think all of those things that have been going on where we haven’t realized enough that it’s not about the input. It’s about the outcomes. That some of the things that we’ve been doing, since, you know, [inaudible 00:04:25] might need to change so that we can get team members who don’t wanna sit in the seat and be measured every six minutes. You know? All of that kind of stuff. Sorry.
Jean: Yeah. Paul, do you think are they getting better? Are they getting better with all of this? Because we’re talking this book was over 20 years ago.
Paul: It depends. That’s right. It depends who you read. There was a study done, I think it was about 18 months ago, in the UK, or United Kingdom, which said that 68% of firms had now gotten away from charging in six-minute units. And, if you believe that stat, I mean, you know, what Ron once said or, actually, the first thing Ron Baker said to me when we met in California in 1996, way back then, and I was ranting and raving at at the CPA Society, actually, in the days of Don Dunleavy and all of those guys. And everybody’s sort of sitting there because I was, you know, really ranting and raving about that whole thing. And Ron was like, he was the one person in the audience, though. And he came up to me afterwards, and he said, “Oh, that was amazing.” And he said, “By the way, can I tell you what I want on my tombstone?” And I thought to myself, well, no one’s ever introduced himself that way before. And he said, “What I want on my tombstone is, ‘Here lies Ron Baker. He buried the billable hour.'” And ever since, we’ve been very firm friends. So I think more and more people are recognizing that that’s just not a way to turn up. It’s just not.
You know, why is it that if you think about COVID, just as a for example, you think about what happened there. People listening to us right now, if they were an accounting firm way back in COVID, well, it’s not way back, is it, but just a few years ago in the COVID days, I mean, do you want a better example of what heroes look like? I mean, think of the businesses that they saved. Think of the ripple effect of that on the families because those businesses were saved. I mean, that’s heroic. Right? But accountants don’t typically act like that. And so what happens, we, you know, still get paid last and all of that kind of stuff. Why is that?
And the answer is because we haven’t yet come to terms. And it’s okay to be humble. It really is wonderful to be humble, but it’s not wonderful to be able to accept your calling. And your calling is very simple, and it is to transform the lives of the people with whom you’re privileged to serve or whom you’re privileged to serve. Right? Once you get that, it changes everything. So I think there’s still a ways to go on that, but I still think that all of the things we were saying in 2003, other than floppy disks and fax machines, are still… And by the way, if you think about that, if you think about where are the advances, I mean, we can now do literally in seconds, literally in seconds, what took us maybe hours, if not days before. Literally. I mean, I’m not making that up as you well know. And so you would think that when people realize that and they go, “Oh, my business model depends on time in some way,” then you’ve gotta recognize, oh, my God. This is a huge challenge. But what if it didn’t? What if it just depended on the outcomes? Boom. That’s a whole lot different.
Jean: Exactly. Exactly. And to go along with that, since many things that accountants do, they can do much faster, that should be opening up more time for them be involved in marketing and business development…
Paul: Hundred percent.
Jean: …and/or really focusing in on more advisory services for their current client…
Paul: Hundred percent.
Jean: …instead of hiding behind, oh, I’ve got to bill all this time, and I don’t have time for these things, they really do have the time for it now. So I know you’ve inferred, you know, about the billable hour and the time issue. Do you see that accountants are becoming more advisory, you know, regardless of how they’re pricing for it? Do you find that they’re being better, you know, about advisory?
Paul: Yes. I think there are some that have just died in the wood, which, you know, where they’re not going to change, but I think, you know, one of the results of the things that we did way back in the very early 2000s in the Accountants BootCamp. In fact, it was interesting. Yesterday, I was doing an event for the Profit First people, you know, with Mike Mecklenburg and so on. And there was a guy… They had questions at the end. And there was this guy, and the host said, “Do you have any questions?” And this guy, his first name is Wade. And he put his hand up, and he said, “Well, I don’t have any questions, but what I do have is, I just want to express my gratitude.” And I thought, really? Yes. Because 27 years ago, I was sitting in a room at the Accountants BootCamp, the thing we were doing way back then. And he said, “It completely changed my life. Absolutely, completely changed my life.” Right? And I mean, I’m still on a high from that.
Jean: Right? Well, it is…
Paul: Yes, hence the reason I mentioned it. But yeah, there are some that really don’t get that, and I guess you have to say that’s okay. Right? But I think when you think about… You know, it’s really interesting when you look at, you know, people like Barry Melancon and Mark Koziel, you know, in positions of power, if you will, and I don’t mean that in the way we might think about power, but you know what I’m saying, in position of influence, are saying exactly the same things now, and they’re saying it very strongly. But there are some who are gonna say, “No, no, no. I’m happy with my green eye shade” and all of that kind of stuff. You know?
Jean: Right. Right. Yeah. Because what we’re talking about requires change, and, you know, we know how people just love to change things up….
Paul: Oh, yeah. It’s pretty cool.
Jean: …instead of just doing it the way they’ve always done it. Now so you’ve mentioned the Accountants BootCamp, which you launched in 1992. So you’ve influenced, you know, thousands of accountants, right, through that program. What do you think is still the biggest available opportunity for accounting firms?
Paul: I think it still goes back to what we were saying back then, to recognize that our role is not to report on history. Our role is to help people, our selected clients. Right? Selected is really crucial word in that, to create history. And once we do that, we start to realize the ripple effect of what we do, and the ripple effect is just huge. You know? Like, families are staying together. Families are growing. All of that kind of stuff. So I think that’s the core of it. You know, way back when in those days, we used to reference Joseph Pine a fair bit, Joseph Pine III, to give him his correct, whatever they call those things that [inaudible 00:12:02]. And he wrote a book right back then, which we used to talk about a lot, which is called, “The Experience Economy.” Now, he’s, what, 10 months away from publishing his new book, which is called, “The Transformation Economy.” And one of the things that he says in there… He does it, by the way, through a thing called Substack, which you may be aware of, which basically means that those of us who he kinda lets in, can see every Thursday what he’s writing, and we can make observations and stuff. So when it comes out in February, it’s gonna be a really great book, just as “The Experience Economy was.” And he says it really, really well. You know, and let me just mix a couple… I was gonna say mix metaphors, but let me just mix a couple of people. And I’m gonna tell you about Joe Pine over here. Let’s put another person that we would be familiar with, notably Mr. Jobs, as in Steve Jobs. Right?
In 1996, Jobs said this. He said, “The storyteller…” Now, by the way, this is not a thing about telling stories because I think that accountants are story creators, not storytellers. Anyway, put creators where he said tellers. So he said, “The storyteller is the most powerful person in the world because the storyteller sets the vision, the values, and the agenda for an entire generation yet to come.” And when you look at those last seven words, “for an entire generation yet to come,” you realize the profound nature of what we’re doing. And you also realize that it’s not about you. It’s about something bigger than you, which then let me flip that to Joseph Pine and what he says. And it is, you know, it is all about vision and really having that as the starting place, if you like, the North Star of what we’re all about. And he says it this way. Or a friend of mine… Again, before I get to Joe, let’s do this one. A friend of mine said this. “When your vision becomes more powerful than your memories, then your future becomes more powerful than your past.” Now the way that Joe Pine expresses a very similar thought in relation to the transformative nature of what the profession can do and should be doing, he says this. “There’s only one purpose that any entity should have,” and he says, “that purpose is…” It’s a bit deep. This is very deep. He said, “That purpose is to foster humanity flourishing.” Isn’t it? It’s like, pretty, damn deep.
Jean: Yeah, that is deep.
Paul: And when we think about that… Isn’t it deep? And then when you think about that, just ask yourself this question. Is asking people to tell me about their time every six minutes fostering humanity flourishing? It’s actually just the reverse of that. It really is. It’s just the opposite.
Jean: It’s crunching it. It’s like it’s destroying it. It’s putting it out. You know, what came to my mind as you said this about the stories, you know, because there’s been a call for accountants to be able to tell better stories, particularly as it relates to what a team member’s life might be like working at their firm, you know, more about the culture because of the staffing crisis. But what I heard from you is the importance for accountants to be able to relate stories about their work with their clients and what that has meant to the clients, not in an egotistical way, but a way to demonstrate the power or the ability for accountants to play a significant role in the life of business owners and their businesses and individuals. Because, you know, most CPAs, they enter the profession because they want to help people, right? And they’re good with that. Right?
Paul: A hundred percent. Hundred percent.
Jean: I mean, they know numbers, they’re analytical, so okay, let’s be accountants. You know, that’s the foundation of business, right, is what everybody says. So these stories are important not only to attract team members to a firm, but to share how they have impacted the lives of their clients.
Paul: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. And I just want everybody listening to us now to let what Jean just said sink. Okay? Really, really take note of what she just said, and let’s just build on that a little bit. Right? So if we think about team members and stuff like that, and we think about this whole thing about fostering humanity flourishing, then we get to a really, really interesting place, right, and that place is… Let me give you some alliteration, which would express it in a simple way. There is this concept that a fair few people, including me, talk about, which is called the sea of sameness. You know? Like, we’re all using the same tools. We’re all in the same. And yet everybody has this website which says, “We’re different.” Everybody has that. Right? You should try…
Jean: We give excellent client service. Like, clients are at the center of everything.
Paul: Yeah. Exactly. All of that stuff. But that’s the sea of sameness. Right? So the interesting question is, so let’s call that standard. So what all of these thoughts that we captured way back in 2003 and then we refined in a couple of years ago in “Time’s Up” lead to this. You can move from standard to stand out, right, by standing for something that’s bigger than you. Right? Does that make sense?
Jean: It does.
Paul: So standard to stand out because you stand for. And all of a sudden, when you get that transition, standard to stand out because you stand for, just think about that for a minute. You automatically attract more people to you because you’re bigger than you, if that makes sense. So what might you stand for? Well, there’s all sorts of things that you might stand for, but one of the things that you might stand for is the impact that you have on the people that you’re privileged to serve. Right? Plus the impact on the community and all those kind of things as well. So that’s one of the reasons why I now talk about not just being purpose-driven, which gets back to that kind of North Star thing, but actually being impact-driven and to think about all the impacts that we can actually create that become bigger than ourselves. And whenever we’re talking with clients, you know, it’s like, oh, they might say, “Oh, I love the way, you know, we had that meeting” and all of that kind of stuff. Hopefully, they’re saying those sorts of things. And then to always remember there’s another question. And the other question is, “Tell me, Sally. Tell me, John. What do you see as the impact of that? What’s the impact of what we just did?” “Oh, well, the impact of that is, you know, I gotta do this and this and this. Oh, wow.” And even go even further. Oh, I get that. And is there any other impact? And the moment you start to think about that, then what’s happening is you’re creating a different place.
Like, there’s a place that I really like. It’s an accounting firm in London, and it has posters up, you know, as you go in the foyer. And the posters basically say this. Right? Well, not basically. They actually say this. They say, “We help our clients win.” It’s very simple. We help our clients win. And it’s just such a cool place to be and a cool, you know, a cool place for team members to be. They walk past those posters every day. You know? So it’s really cool.
Jean: Right. So I’ve got a couple of questions related to this. So you have always been a huge proponent of values-driven leadership, and this is what we’ve been touching on already. Right?
Paul: Yeah. Yeah. We have.
Jean: How can smaller firms embed purpose without being overwhelmed or distracted by the bottom line? We’ve been touching upon this already. So they may have a purpose or maybe they feel like they need to have a purpose, but then they get stuck because they’re overwhelmed by having to keep track of that time, for example. How could they get past that?
Paul: Well, by not tracking it is one very simple answer.
Jean: That easy decision not to track time anymore. That’s it.
Paul: There you go. That’s essentially it. I was talking about this yesterday. There’s this kind of belief that, in some areas, which says, you know, if you have this kind of North Star-thinking, if you have this, you know, here’s why I do what I do, if you get all of that, that somehow or other, that’s sort of anti what actually is happening on the bottom line. The reality is just the opposite. It is when you have that, it actually builds it in a vastly different way, vastly different way. Why? Because you’re now talking with your clients about doing exactly the same thing, which inspires them so much more than the numbers. It’s not about the numbers. It’s about the impact of the numbers. Right? And the moment you get that, it really does change a lot of things. I was going to say everything, but I’ll say a lot of things for now.
Jean: Right. Right. Because when we think about all of this, you know, the talk about leadership and values and, you know, being something, you know, bigger than you are, that also has a big impact on firm culture and client loyalty…
Paul: Oh, it’s essential to it.
Jean: …and talent retention because it’s not all about what the firm is accomplishing. It’s about what the team members are contributing to the world, you know, let’s say, not only to their firm, but their community, their families, their region, you know, whatever that might be.
Paul: Yeah. Exactly. And the culture, who was it? Peter Drucker who said, “Culture eats strategy for breakfast or the other…” Something like that. I don’t remember what it was.
Jean: Yeah. I think it might have been lunch, you know, but same point.
Paul: That’s it. Yeah. And it’s so true. It’s so true. And so from this culture that you build and you build that by focusing on the right things, which are the impact of what you’re doing. Right? And guess what your team members are doing? They’re getting excited about being a part of all of that, which is why they want to join you. Okay? So once you get that, it just becomes, I think, very obvious that, purpose drives all of that sort of stuff. And then in our sense with B1G1, when you kind of link impact to that so that you’re able to say, you know, “Whenever we meet with the client, something great happens outside of what we just did.” You know? Six kids just got access to game-changing education as a result of us, for example, having a great meeting right now. And again, it’s automatically moving you from standard to standout because you stand for.
And then the other thing, I’m not sure whether this is an age thing, Jean. I’m really not. But, I think a lot about that quote that I gave you from Steve Jobs, you know, about us standing for more, if you know what I mean. You know, the whole thing around the storytellers, that’s the vision, the values, and the agenda for an entire generation yet to come. Another way of thinking about that, and to get back to your point about why we’re doing this, right? We need to realize that, and at some time, we’ll think about this. Now most of us, including our clients, think about this too late, and that is legacy. We think about that. Right? But most of us, not early enough. And we think about it in a binary way. We think, oh, we’ve got a choice as to whether or not we leave one. Well, we don’t have a choice. We are going to leave one. Right? There’s no question. The only question is, is it a legacy of consumption, or is it a legacy of contribution? Now you can play that alliteration thing with legacy in a very interesting way, and we talk about this in “Time’s Up,” by the way. So instead of thinking leaving a legacy and bearing in mind your question about culture, why don’t we think of this? Why don’t we think of living it every day? And why don’t we think of leveraging it in every way? In other words, why don’t our clients get that idea as well? And why would we be jointly doing this? One entire generation yet to come. So you see, it gives you that, woah. I’m looking forward to doing this today, if that makes sense.
Jean: So tell us what made you shift from building better accounting firms to this global giving movement you’re involved with, with B1G1. And do those two missions connect?
Paul: Oh, they do. Absolutely they do. You know, there’s literally thousands of accountants or accounting firms who are part of B1G1. And all of that happened… You know, I was thinking earlier on when you were asking me a question that this is actually all about questions, and we, in the profession, need to be better students of asking those questions. Right? And one day, this is what got me on this particular track with B1G1, by the way. Someone once said to me, she’s nice enough to call me her cofounder. But anyway, we were sitting in this mentoring session, and she said to me with this lovely Japanese accent, and she had a tiny little food business that was doing interesting things way back in 2007. And she said in this meeting… See, this is one of those moments. Right? All of us have moments when something hits you between the eye or actually is a big enough moment that changes your life. And, you know, listening to this, for example, hopefully, this has been full of moments that do, you know, those things.
So here’s one of my big moments. And she said, “Can we do different today?” And I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “Well, you’re my mentor, so you are always the one who asks the questions. Can we change that today? Can I begin by asking you a question?” And I said, “Sure. That sounds like fun.” And she said, “It’s a what-if question.” She said, “What if we could do something whereby every time business is done, something great happens in our world?” And I went, “Wow. That would be kind of interesting.” And then the meeting went a bit deeper and just got on to that, and that was when this whole idea of B1G1 came into play. So now exactly that happens. So you can track, and you can track it automatically, you know, whenever someone accepts a proposal or whatever. You know, something great will happen, and you can choose what those great things are.
And it’s a very different thing. It’s about three things. It’s about impact, not about the money. It’s all about the impact that you create. So you will recall I said earlier on that, you know, a lot of accountants now do things like, oh, when we had this great meeting, you know, six kids get access to game-changing education. It’s not, “Oh, we just gave, you know, $10 to the local” whatever it was. So it’s about impact. It’s also about habit, meaning, you know, I hope we’ve all read, the “Atomic Habit” books, James Clear, you know, and the whole thing around that. Wouldn’t you love to have a name like James Clear? I really would love to have a bit at the end of my name because sometimes I’m not. But even so it’s about habits, you know, the things we do each day rather than this one soft thing that, you know, the people tend to do. No. That’s just making us, you know, it doesn’t work that way.
And then the final thing, which is so, so, so important, is connection. And I like what Brene Brown said about that in her first TED Talk, you know, way back in whatever it was, 2019, I think. Yeah. No. It was earlier than that. And she said, “Connection is why we’re here.” She said, “It’s what gives meaning and purpose to our life.” That’s it. Right? And you take away the connection, you take away that meaning and purpose. It’s like an interesting, circular thing. So impact, habit, connection. And when we talk about that, people sometimes think we’re talking about connection to, you know, clients and connection to all of those. No. It’s really connection to ourselves. That’s the crucial thing, connection to ourselves.
And how do we do that? By setting in place these things that are worthwhile for us to be at, you know, where we talked about standard to standout because you stand for, right? Living it and leaving the legacy. You know, that whole thing. And it’s once you have that, you get up, and you get up in an entirely different way than you got up before. And, of course, people around you see that. Right? And they see that as part of the culture. And you’re gonna wanna meet with huddles with your team every morning, and you’re gonna wanna talk about what’s happening during the day and how can you help each other do that better and all of that kind of stuff. But the important thing, just almost full circle, actually, is remember that little thing I told you about the 26 year old, you know, who said, “I realize that life comes from me, not at me.” And when we get that and when we focus on the things that we can control, not the things that might upset us or whatever, the things that we can control, then all of a sudden, our lives get better, and that just reflects in all of the things we do in the profession. And why are we heroes? Because this profession deals with, you know, 98% of companies, meaning the small-scale business companies in the world, that’s what we do. And the impact of doing that is just extraordinary.
Jean: Oh, gosh.
Paul: Does that make sense?
Jean: Yeah. So I hope everybody watching and listening really thinks about this because these are thought-provoking questions that we need to ask ourselves, you know, every now and again. You know, COVID had a lot of, I’ll use the word again, you know, impact on us. And one of those things I believe is, people thinking hard about how they want to spend their time and who they wanna spend their time with. Because, you know, I mean, thankfully, I mean, we survived a pandemic. Right?
Paul: Yes. We did.
Jean: So while at the same time, you know, the profession learned how to unplug those computers and set up a home office so that they could work remote and really help continue to help their clients…
Paul: Yeah. Exactly.
Jean: …I think lots of folks have also thought about, “You know, when am I gonna retire?” Or, “You know, what kind of work am I doing? And is that really what I want to be doing? How might that change?” Or, “What new skills do I want to learn?” Or, “What are the other things in my life that I’m meant to be doing that I haven’t focused on yet and I need to focus on that now?”
Paul: Mm. That’s a beautiful summary, Jean. It really is beautiful. And this all comes back, and we talk about this a lot too, client selection. We need to understand that, you know, there are some people that we choose to work with that don’t get that, and that’s okay, but you wouldn’t let that drag you. Right? And when you get that and you really get this incredibly deep purpose that by applying some of the things that we’re thinking about right now and talking about right now, we literally, and this is not a metaphor. This is literal. Okay? We are literally changing people’s lives. That’s it.
Jean: Wow. Okay. Well, I don’t wanna end yet, but that’s a terrific point to end on. But my last question is a bonus question.
Paul: Yeah. Bonus question.
Jean: A bonus question. Okay? So what is something that you’ve learned about life that took you a long time to understand?
Paul: Oh, well, I didn’t know you’re gonna ask me that. I haven’t known any of these questions, as you know. But it’s funny. I was actually thinking about this, this morning. And, so I was in London, right in the center of London, at a meeting of a pretty [inaudible 00:35:40] group. And I think I’m an imposter by being in that group. It’s my wife who actually is part of the group, and I get to go along. But anyway, they hadn’t been able to meet for three years because of COVID, and they were celebrating their first meeting. And they had this musical thing going on, on stage to welcome us. Just 150 people in the room, and we’re there to kind of figure out some of these big issues in the world. And there’s this woman. So on the stage, there’s a musical group, and then at the back, there’s these two women in white, flowing robes, and they’re doing, one of them, at least, is doing this [inaudible 00:36:22] old thing, and it feels like you’re in the center of the universe. And then one of the women steps forward, and I think she’s gonna, you know, she’s gonna belt out a Tina Turner song or something. And she references a music stand next to her, and she starts to not sing, but she starts to read. And it takes me a little while, but fortunately, by the third line, I get that she’s a poet. And she’s a poet of considerable standing, which I didn’t know because she’s in the other kingdom. Sophia Thakur is her name, by the way. And she said, “Have you ever noticed,” and just imagine this, she was a black woman, just imagine these really deep tones, she said, “Have you ever noticed when things break, they open?” Oh, my gosh.
Jean: See, there are people in this world who can take a concept, right, and really make you think, because that is absolutely true, if something breaks, it does lead to other opportunity or other solutions. Very interesting.
Paul: And the quicker we realize that, the quicker we realize that [inaudible 00:37:47].
Jean: Right? Right? That it doesn’t mean that something is over. It actually means that it’s an opportunity for it to start again. Right? Or…
Paul: You got it.
Jean: …contribute. Okay. I will have to go on record to say that this has been the most thought-provoking episode of “Gear Up For Growth,” powered by CPA Trendlines. Paul, this has been terrific. Folks…
Paul: Thank you.
Jean: …I’ve been speaking with Paul Dunn, a four-time TEDx speaker, cofounder of B1G1, Business for Good. Be sure to check out that website. I do believe it’s b1g1.com?
Paul: That’s right. It is.
Jean: Okay. And also founder of Results Accountants’ Systems. Paul, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us today.
Paul: Thank you. Such a privilege to be with you. And by the way, all of you, thank you for listening too.
Jean: And thank you for tuning in to “Gear Up for Growth.” Be sure to check us out next time when we focus on another topic crucial for accounting firms aiming for smart growth in today’s competitive marketplace. I’ll see you then.